Shut up and read this interview Issue #18

The complete, uncut David Cross interview

By Amber Drea
Published: December 5th, 2003 | 3:55pm

Comedian David Cross has no qualms about answering the phone while going to the bathroom. Upon calling him back after being disconnected, I was greeted with that familiar sound of urine splashing into a porcelain basin. Once safely zipped up, he generously took time out of his busy baseball-watching schedule to have a serious talk. We discussed, among other things, Let America Laugh, his new behind-the-scenes documentary of the tour from his comedy album Shut Up, You Fucking Baby! (both on SubPop), and his new TV show on Fox.

So you are a baseball fan. What’s your favorite team?
I’m a big Red Sox and Braves fan.

I figured you’d be a Braves fan cuz you’re from there.
But I also do fuckin’ love the Red Sox.

Cuz you spent some time in Boston.
Yeah, nine years.

Wow, that’s a long time. You went to school up there, right?
I went there just to go to school, which I did for about, I think it was 17 minutes. Give or take.

What school did you go to?
Emerson.

What were you going to study there?
Film. I took one film class and it was a fuckin’ crock of shit. It was very expensive, not worth it. My film teacher for my first class actually said at one point, "Look, my thing is jazz radio. I have a jazz program. I don’t really know film." She was reading right out of a book. I was like, I can fuckin’ do that and save $14 grand and not go in debt.

Did you act when you were younger? Like in high school?
I went to a school of the arts. I did a summer program when I was 13 or 14, something like that. Kinda got hooked that way. And just eventually moved in from the suburbs to the city to go to this school of the arts, one of those magnet schools.

How did you choose to be a stand-up?
When the guy came to the door and said, "Would you rather be a cosmonaut or a stand-up?" and I got the literature on both and chose stand-up.

The DVD is super funny.
Thanks. I’ve never been — and this isn’t hyperbole — of all the projects I’ve ever done, I’ve never been more completely at a loss as to whether people will like it. Whether they’ll find it worthy of their time or informative or entertaining or self-indulgent or useless. So that’s good to hear.

It seems that you meet only freaks on your tour. Did you meet any cool people who would actually hang out with in real life? Or was it just all these crazed fans?
Yeah, there were plenty of cool people. I regret, simply because it just turned out this way, but I regret that I didn’t have a camera on the first tour I went on, which was just kinda more fun and a little more crazy.

Was it different material on that tour?
Not really. It was mostly the same stuff. Maybe some things were kind of expanded and I dropped things as I went along. I always tend to talk about what happened to me that day, if it was worth talking about, or the city I’m in or whatever . And if people want to fuckin’ yell at you…

So your shows can be pretty interactive.
Yeah, they tend to be. I’m not suggesting that’s a good thing. There’s a lot of (laughs) pretty crazy people, socially awkward, you know, where you’re going "What?"

Maybe it’s because you have a band open for you so they’re in this mind state of "Oh, I can cheer! I can call out things!" You know, the whole singing-along mentality. But stand-up comedy is different.
And I’m kind of inviting it when I’m in a club like that. At a comedy club, you’re supposed to sit down and be quiet … and shit like that. More focused on a stage as opposed to whenever you go see music, you’re used to being able to scoot towards the back and talk and go get beers and you don’t feel like you’re missing anything.

Would you ever tour with another comedian?
Oh sure. I was actually talking to a couple friends about going out and doing a tour in the summer where people can register to vote.

At the shows?
Yeah, just getting a couple of comics together. People who are not necessarily overtly political people, just political people who are pretty much on the same page. And just put it together with the idea of having a fun time, doing a fun show, but also getting people a little more involved than they tend to be.

Do you ever do anything that’s overtly involved with politics? Or are you more like, "Let’s talk about, let’s at least be aware of it."
I’m definitely more of a talker than a doer. I don’t know what’s better actively than educating somebody and hoping to change their mind. I’m not sure that there’s much better you can do. But I donate a bunch of money, I’ve done tons of benefits, I’ve helped out publications. I don’t campus or go door to door, but I try to avail myself to the information and then be able to end up hopefully having an influential, logical argument with somebody who my not necessarily agree with me. You know, try to counteract some of the shrill rhetoric that’s on the left.

I think part of what you’re doing is recording a certain kind thinking about what is going on in the world right now. You say things that are on people’s minds in such a way that really makes people listen to it.
That’s good. I don’t want to sound … serious, but I’m also so frustrated and completely over the simple, polemic kind of rhetoric of the left; anybody who has a "Bush is an asshole" bumper sticker I don’t even want to talk to.

I was sort of forgiving Bush for a little while. Well, not forgiving him, but like "He’s the president. He’s gotta do what he’s gotta do." Then I started reading Michael Moore’s book Dude, Where’s My Country? and now I’m like, "Oh my god, it really is a conspiracy! We really don’t know anything about what’s going on."
Yeah. On one side, there’s the people who, if they had all the information, they would be outraged, maybe spurred to action. Then the other part are the people who do have the information and don’t care, and they’re both kind of frustrating. Like people who should know better, and I just don’t see that there’s any excuse except for the kind of ignorance-is-bliss attitude people have. "Oh it’s too much to think about. I don’t care." But everybody trumpets how magnanimous and generous and wonderful America is as a nation, and there’s quite a history of being very giving, but when you take it individually and community-wise, I don’t think that very many people really are. And by that, I don’t mean that, oh, they don’t donate money each Christmas to a soup kitchen or they do two days of volunteer work. I’m just talking about specifically ignoring or willingly refusing to accept or listen to the truth about how shitty our government is, has been, how many people are suffering, not even just globally, but in this country. And what does the War On Drugs really mean? There’s a great thing in Harper’s this month about how all the uniforms [and] accessories are made by prison labor. Talking about Chinese prison labor and isn’t that terrible, but when you have a war on drugs and you incarcerate somebody for 15 years for getting high and you destroy that family and part of that is deceit and increasing prison population, [because] businesses need prison population [so] then they can make stuff really cheaply and they don’t have to pay insurance or worker’s comp or they don’t have to play by OSHA rules if they don’t have minimum wage. You know, that’s just one tiny, one awesome little example of information that might change your mind about stuff. Is all I’m saying.

OK, let’s not get all depressed about what a horrible country we live in right now.
Let’s do it!

What I really like about your stand-up style is its conversational tone. Do you mix and match your bits as you’re performing or do you know exactly what you’re going talk about that night?
I’m a big fan of mixing and matching my outfits and my drinks, my interior design, so I bring that philosophy to the stage. It’s a mix … of matching. I’ll have these little tattered pieces of paper (laughs), like a couple index cards and Post-It notes and stuff. I’m definitely an unapologetic notes-on-stage guy. It really bugs [some people]. They think somehow that’s not pure.

It’s like when a band’s performing, they have their set list.
Oh man, I can’t believe how unfair it is or the disparities between [playing] in a band and how when you’re a stand-up, [you] can’t repeat stuff. If I went around and did stuff off the album, people would be pissed off. I could do one thing, maybe, but I don’t anyway. I have no greatest hits. I can’t redo that stuff. And also, I’ve got no fuckin’ amps to crank up and distortion pedals to kick.

Religion is obviously another big thing with you. Did you have a religious childhood at all?
No. Early early on, I was kidnapped by monks but I was trained in the Shaolin arts, which I consider a nice trade off cuz the meals were so shitty — just bland, no spice, no nothing, no hot sauce ever.
I had a stage when I became more religious. I was brought up in a Jewish household, and I think just cuz of my nature where if somebody tells me to do something, then I want to do the exact opposite. If I’m expected to act a certain way or whatever. And I think living in the Deep South — well not too deep, mid-level — and then being Jewish, no Jewish neighbors — actually, my apartment complex did have a couple of Jewish neighbors, but very [few] — and it’s so predominantly Baptist, it just made me embrace [Judaism] a little more because it was different and it was a way to be an irritant to people without having to do anything, but it just bothered people. Not terribly, but just slightly. I was kind of a strange creature that they weren’t that comfortable with. But then ultimately I just had to follow my heart and my mind, which is, I don’t believe any of it. Not only do I not believe in it, but your belief in it is now affecting me and that’s what bothers me.

I tend to take it for granted that nobody around me who is intelligent actually believes in religion.
Part of the thing is, as I get older, I meet more and more people who do believe in it who I know are smarter, who I know are smart people. They’re moral, they’re good, they’re inquisitive, and they believe this stuff. Almost 100% of the time it’s the religion that they were brought up in, that their parents were. I think that’s extremely telling that people kind of ignore that what belief system you’re indoctrinated in is the one that you’re going to gravitate towards. It’s all so blatant and obvious to me.
I’m not angry anymore. I used to be outraged and angry. I’m angry when it affects me and my friends or whatever , but just somebody’s simple belief in it, that’s fine. I kind of have that mild, vague feeling, very slight, but I just kind of feel a little sorry for them in the same way that they feel sorry for me, like it’s too bad I don’t know Jesus and I don’t know his love. And I have that same feeling, like it’s too bad they’re not being true to themselves, [that] they are hypocrites who think they’re not judgmental when of course they really are ... That’s one of the things that irritates me, that I’m somehow lost without [religion], but for the most part, I think I’m a pretty moral, ethical person.

You try to get to the truth. The biggest thing with religion is that there are so many different kinds and so many different beliefs and so many different "gods," how can any one be right?
There’s a book of children’s 101 cutest questions that they ask nuns or whatever. "If god is all-forgiving…" Those are fucking logical questions. They’re all questions that adults should be asking. You can’t just chalk it up to "Well, out of the mouths of babes" when they’re so young and innocent. I love how the Bible and everything the Bible pertains to just takes place in the Middle East and everything they talk about is, every reference that god makes has to do with things that are indigenous to a small region of the planet. No Japanese, no Asians, no Mongolians, nobody from Iceland, Nordic people aren’t mentioned, American Indians aren’t mentioned. And that is one tiny little nugget of showing their ignorance. Their world was teeny and tiny and small. They didn’t know about Japanese people. They would’ve fucking freaked out if Japanese people wandered in. It’s just such a product of man. Not of "god."

It reminds me of that Mr. Show episode with the educational video from the 1500s or something talking about the "modern world." They just made stuff up because they didn’t have a real answer for it.
Well, that was their real answer, that’s the thing. Science is constantly being refuted, and theories are being invalidated by science as well. The universe is shrinking.

Just one more question about religion. The only bit that offended me on the CD is "god is a boy fucker."
Really?

Yes. So I was wondering if you often tell jokes just to push the boundaries about what is allowed to be said.
Yeah, absolutely. I find myself in the last two years or so using the word "nigger" more, in character, which is something that I got in trouble for when I was in Atlanta. And this is way before the concept of "politically correct" came around, but I would do these characters. And that’s how people talk, whether you like it or not, and I don’t agree with it, but that’s how people talk. And so I started doing more and more of that, especially when the whole idea of the "N word" came about, which is fucking the most childish, absurd, [and] backwards. I mean, when people say "the N word," I don’t know whether to laugh or just get in a time machine … It’s such a disregard of the obvious notion that you give a word power by suppressing it. And so I’ve been doing that more and more. I have a whole section on racism now that I’ve been doing, talking about republicans and Trent Lott, and it gets me to the concept of racist zombies, [and] different things that I explore with it.

What’s the story you have about that word from when you were doing stand-up in Atlanta?
Oh, just that I had friends of mine who were comics, who were really good friends. We would hang out and we were the open mic-ers and we’d go hang out and support each other and watch each other and then we’d go out to eat. And one of the [characters I did was] this kind of crass New York guy who’s just stupid. So I’d say (dons a New York accent), "Ah, these fucken niggas, they don’t know what the fuck’s goin’ on" or whatever, and [my black friends] got all pissed off at me. They’re not really upset that I say that stuff. I’ve had a couple people say I was a racist, which is funny. So some people are put off by it, but some people encourage it. They say, "I was surprised, man. It’s weird, but I see what you’re doing." Or whatever the attitude might be.
While I like all the material, I tend to air on the wrong side of shock. I like the "god is a boyfucker" joke a lot, I like to extrapolate the logic of it. I mean I don’t believe in god so it’s easy for me to sit and draw conclusions while ignoring big leaps in logic by going "Well, if god made man in his image and da da da da da, then god must like to fuck little boys." And there’s really nothing as wonderful and warm and human for me as to say that line. And maybe there’s an answer [to why so many priests molest children]. But saying that in a comedy club is great. Like if I go to Raleigh, North Carolina, and I’m working Charlie Goodnight’s and people aren’t expecting that, then that’s kind of fun.

Has anything ever happened when you said that line?
No, just a lot of "Oh shit! No!" attitude.

So when you write your material, you think "This is how I’m going say it"? Or do you just have the idea and you trust you natural sense of storytelling?
It’s mostly that. I’ll jot some shit down and I’ll start talking about it on stage. And if I’m really being responsible and smart, I’ll tape it and then I’ll kind of listen to what works and what didn’t.

Will you play the tape for anybody?
No, I never do that. I’ll go to open mic nights.

Are you doing clubs now?
I haven’t in a while. I was going to clubs, but then I started to do this work I’m doing now.

Can you tell us a little about this new show you’re working on?
It’s called Arrested Development, and it’s just a really fun character and a really smart script.

What’s the character like?
He is a kind of misguided, not misguided, but just somewhat pretentious, slightly fey husband to this woman [played by Portia De Rossi of Ally McBeal] and they have this really strange relationship. There’s very little sex involved. He was a psychotherapist and lost his license, and then he discovers he wants to be an actor. And nobody really tolerates his stuff. You know James Lipton, the guy who hosts Inside the Actors Studio? I’m channeling him a little bit.

Have you ever thought of writing a book?
If I wasn’t so lazy, not lazy, but just more responsible, I could write a book. I got plenty of ideas but this is easier for me so I’m doing it. I keep thinking "You know what? The next time I go away, I’m just gonna bring my computer and I’m gonna sit down and I’m gonna write." And I never fucking do it cuz I always end up getting drunk.

How do you feel about the band Kansas?
(Whispers) Oh, I love Kansas. No, I did when I was in high school. I didn’t love ‘em, love ‘em, but there are a couple things. I liked some of that corny shit until around tenth grade.

What music are you listening to now?
The new Guided By Voices is really good. Sleepy Jackson. Still listening to lots of the newish Grandaddy. Got the new Outkast, but I haven’t listened to it yet. The Darkness.

So how do you feel about being perceived as a sex symbol?
(Laughs) I wasn’t aware that I was, but…

I actually have friends who have used the word "hard-on" in a conversation about you.
They thought I had a hard-on? (Affecting a feminine voice) "I swear to god, I think that guy had a hard-on. It was weird. It was kind of cool, a little sexy, but super creepy in a way."

We could do a two-page spread of you in your tighty whiteys.
Yeah, I just did a fuckin’ strip thing. It was at Bumbershoot, this festival in Seattle. They had this American flag g-string at the Hustler store.

Don’t guys read Hustler?
Yeah. They do.